Correct connector?

"VincentMalamute-Kim" (VincentMalamute-Kim) 08/04/2020 at 21:06 • Filed to: None

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I removed the AC unit from my friend’s RV. That was the right move.

RV place absolutely butchered the install. It’s horrible. The roof that the AC sat on originally had a 1" lip to the interior. This kept water out in most situations even if the bottom wasn’t sealed. They sawed away that lip and stuffed some packing foam into the resulting space. Arrows shows the remnant of the lip at the edges.

They cut the power cord so they could route it through the wall. Reconnected with wire nuts and electrical tape.

I’m sure wire nuts on stranded wire in the high vibration RV environment is not correct. Anyone know the correct connectors? Or the correct Google search words? I did not have any luck.

BrianGriffin thinks “reliable” is just a state of mind > VincentMalamute-Kim 08/04/2020 at 21:18

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That’s...that’s just a normal window unit, isn’t it?

Victorinoo > VincentMalamute-Kim 08/04/2020 at 21:19

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Stranded wire in high vibration environment should be joined by an appropriate crimp connector and heat shrink tubing. I would go for uninsulated crimp connector with heat shrink tubing over it. 

VincentMalamute-Kim > BrianGriffin thinks “reliable” is just a state of mind 08/04/2020 at 21:27

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How about if I want to make it removable? But it l ikely would not need to be removable. There’s plenty of cord to just cut if it ever needs replacement again.

Google isn’t being useful for a 120vac plug for stranded wires in an RV - I probably don’t know the correct search terms.

If I can’t find one, I’ll probably crimp and solder. I have read quite a bit of internet arguments on crimp vs solder, stiffening, failure, etc . I just don’t trust my crimp tools and connections

PyroHoltz f@h Oppo 261120 > VincentMalamute-Kim 08/04/2020 at 21:30

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There’s two corrwct ways to do this:

1) water tight crimp connectors

2) soldered and shrunk tube.

There are nearly infinite ways this would be done wrong:

1) twist them and tape it is probably towards the top.

VincentMalamute-Kim > Victorinoo 08/04/2020 at 21:33

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No removable plug options? Otherwise I’ll probably crimp/solder and heatshrink.  Not confident about my crimp tool and connection.

VincentMalamute-Kim > PyroHoltz f@h Oppo 261120 08/04/2020 at 21:33

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No removable plug options? Otherwise I’ll probably crimp/solder and heatshrink. Not confident about my crimp tool and connection.

diplodicus forgot his password > VincentMalamute-Kim 08/04/2020 at 21:34

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Hbl2661 and hbl2663 if you want a connector. There are 20a versions as well, those pn are 125/250vac 30a 3pole

BrianGriffin thinks “reliable” is just a state of mind > VincentMalamute-Kim 08/04/2020 at 21:39

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Like, I’m just confused. I know electrical but i don’t know RVs, so that’s probably the problem. Where does the cord plug in at? Outside of the vehicle? Like to a generator?

Again - knowing nothing about RVs - I would say the proper way, and easiest way, to do this would be to remove the power cord from the AC unit inside at its power supply, run through wall, reattach. Since the old cord is butchered - just get a new one, 12ga cords are like $15 at Home Depot (I’m assuming that’s what this is, obviously check).

As for putting it back in - Loc-tite makes a pretty good waterproof foam 

Urambo Tauro > VincentMalamute-Kim 08/04/2020 at 21:49

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Considering the build quality that RVs are known for, I’d say that looks like a factory job!

jminer > VincentMalamute-Kim 08/04/2020 at 21:51

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You could use a terminal strip that would be a lot more flexible for repairs than soldered but wouldn’t be as simple as a plug.

If you wanted a plug, you could just wire in a 120v outlet there, that unit is supposed to have a GFCI though and it’s obviously been cut off. Maybe even an outdoor rated box if you have room enough which should help keep out crap.

VincentMalamute-Kim > BrianGriffin thinks “reliable” is just a state of mind 08/04/2020 at 22:06

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AC unit sits on the roof (in a depression of the roof - see the vents on the back) . Cord goes through the roof and plugs into a junction box or outlet in the walls somewhere.

Cord is cut so they could get it through the roof hole. Now that I think about it, I’m sure they butchered the electrical connections in inside the walls too.

The AC runs when the RV is connected to 120V shore power or when the generator is running. You could run these off of battery if you had 2KW inverter and about $4K worth of lithium-ion batteries.

VincentMalamute-Kim > diplodicus forgot his password 08/04/2020 at 22:07

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Thanks.  I was hoping for something sleek. There’s no room for those. I think I’ll go with solder/heat shrink.

VincentMalamute-Kim > VincentMalamute-Kim 08/04/2020 at 22:10

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Realized I won’t have the correct size crimp connectors.  Solder/shrink it is.

PyroHoltz f@h Oppo 261120 > VincentMalamute-Kim 08/04/2020 at 22:10

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I considered offering a suggestion of removable plug/connector but I assumed this install would be done once. Is there a regular situation where this would be removed soon?

If not soon, just make the most reliable connection. If y ou really want something removable, you  could do crimp bullet co nnectors. It's just a possible failure point.

VincentMalamute-Kim > jminer 08/04/2020 at 22:12

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Looks like solder/shrink from recommendations.

VincentMalamute-Kim > Urambo Tauro 08/04/2020 at 22:12

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I feel bad because I told her to take it to the “ professionals”.

VincentMalamute-Kim > PyroHoltz f@h Oppo 261120 08/04/2020 at 22:16

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Rarely would need removal. Thinking ahead in case of needing to replace the unit again.

After discussing it with everyone, I realize that there are lots of extra cord. I can just cut it again if it ever needs to be removed.

I’ll go with solder/shrink. Just realized I don’t have large enough crimp connectors for 12g.

This is what we'll show whenever you publish anything on Kinja: > BrianGriffin thinks “reliable” is just a state of mind 08/04/2020 at 22:23

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Anderson powerpoles are good fwiw. 

VincentMalamute-Kim > This is what we'll show whenever you publish anything on Kinja: 08/04/2020 at 22:27

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Yes. T hat’s what I was looking for! Now to decide on removable plug for rare need to disconnect vs solder which eliminates a point of failure as Pyroholtz mentioned .

jminer > VincentMalamute-Kim 08/04/2020 at 22:33

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That is the best way to do it - just wanted to give you another option which would work too as you didn’t want to solder it.

PyroHoltz f@h Oppo 261120 > PyroHoltz f@h Oppo 261120 08/04/2020 at 22:34

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I just saw my typo, shrunk connectors....haha!

This is what we'll show whenever you publish anything on Kinja: > VincentMalamute-Kim 08/04/2020 at 22:43

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If you can reliably crimp, crimp. Solder wicks up the strands and in an environment where there is a lot of rattling it can actually allow the wires to eventually begin to break. That said a good solder job is better than a bad crimp job. A lot of it comes down to the crimpers used, and they can get spendy quickly. If you’re interested I can try to do some digging and make a recommendation for a quality budget pair, but buying a pair has  been on my “to buy” list more so than something that I’m intimately familiar with so I can’t make any suggestions offhand.

VincentMalamute-Kim > This is what we'll show whenever you publish anything on Kinja: 08/04/2020 at 22:49

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Yup. I’ve read the internet arguments on solder vs crimp and have seen the NASA recommendations and electron microscopy of a proper crimp joint.

I don’t have great crimp tools and just realized I don’t have a large enough crimp connector anyway. So solder/shrink it is. I’ll have two layers of shrink so that should support the solder joints to minimi ze stress at the solder margins.

I’m (eventually ) going to build a campervan. Like you, I”m going to buy the proper crimp tools at some point.

This is what we'll show whenever you publish anything on Kinja: > VincentMalamute-Kim 08/04/2020 at 22:52

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If you’ve done the required reading at that level I should probably be asking you stuff, lol. Carry on. 

VincentMalamute-Kim > This is what we'll show whenever you publish anything on Kinja: 08/04/2020 at 22:56

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Maybe. You’re correct on good solder joint beats a bad crimp.

And reading all the advice here is great because it makes me think more. The Anderson Powerpole mentioned is what I thought I was looking for but someone mentioned a plug introduces an additional failure point. And do I really need it to be removable.

Posting my question here was very good.

Rusty Vandura - www.tinyurl.com/keepoppo > VincentMalamute-Kim 08/04/2020 at 23:05

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Wow. That is the worst work I’ve ever seen on anything performed by anyone. They must have held your friend in absolute contempt. I’d probably go there and have a conversation with the owner. Then I’d leave a carefully worded Yelp review, remembering that the most effective ass whippings are the kind and gentle ones.

Crimp/butt/splice connector with heat shrink. Those are not technically allowable for household 120v building codes, but in this application, it’ll be fine. 

notsomethingstructural > VincentMalamute-Kim 08/04/2020 at 23:23

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It’s a violation of the national electrical code to use a flexible cord as a substitute for permanent line-voltage wiring in a wall cavity. You can surface mount a cord but you can’t conceal it behind finishes (because rats could eat it).

I believe there’s a second easy solution though if you don’t want to surface mount it...  An RV with an air conditioner probably doesn’t have anything else connected to the same outlet as the AC. So convert the outlet to a work box and relocate the outlet to up by the AC. Leaving a non-compliant condition that you were aware as-is of can fuck up your insurance, but I’m not sure the NEC applies to RV’s.

I believe UL only certifies screw-down butt splice terminal connectors for indoor splices. Anything else there’s too much potential for user error.

Don’t quote me on any of this, I’m not an electrician.

Also, I feel like a really smart oppo commenter suggested patching a bad job is better than ripping everything out to do a good job.

VincentMalamute-Kim > notsomethingstructural 08/04/2020 at 23:35

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I’m not an electrician either but I know enough to not hide junction boxes and kinda instinctively knew not to bury flexible cord. But yeah, pretty sure NEC doesn’t apply to RVs. Some other certifying organization covers RVs. And marine use.

I don’t have to surface mount a jxn box or outlet or anything because the other end of the cord disappears into the roof. I just have to make the splice in a reasonably correct manner.

I’d like to ignore the half of the cord I can’t see that goes in the roof. I don’t want to go hunt for it underneath the RV’s interior finished walls, cabinets, roof.

HammerheadFistpunch > VincentMalamute-Kim 08/04/2020 at 23:35

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I’ve been pretty happy with these

https://www.amazon.com/Wirefy-Solder-Seal-Wire-Connectors/dp/B01M0EZBYQ

I bought the spendy version but it’ s all the same stuff. Its low temp solder in heat shrink. Put the wires in, heat it up and it crimps down on the wire and seals it up. I recommend pushing the wires into each other like a short splice (b) first.

VincentMalamute-Kim > Rusty Vandura - www.tinyurl.com/keepoppo 08/04/2020 at 23:43

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My friend is female and older. They must’ve smelled a sucker. I might’ve done what you suggest if it had happened to me but since it didn’t, this mess doesn’t have my hackles up.

This was very helpful to post here. Started off looking for what turned out to be Anderson Powerpoles. From other points raised here, I’m going to solder/shrink. I don’t have large enough crimp connectors for 12/14 g and my crimp tools and skills are suspect.

NEC does not apply to RVs. I don’t know what RV certifying organizations expect though.

VincentMalamute-Kim > HammerheadFistpunch 08/04/2020 at 23:50

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Yes. I try to do B when normal soldering.

Which brand is the quality expensive version?

The sealing sounds like a good feature. This spl ice is exterior but under a cover - could be exposed to moisture but wouldn’t get dunked. It’s in the back roof under those vents.

VincentMalamute-Kim > HammerheadFistpunch 08/05/2020 at 00:20

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Which spendy version did you get? I haven’t heard of any of the brands on Amazon.

HammerheadFistpunch > VincentMalamute-Kim 08/05/2020 at 00:36

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I think mine is “spooby” or something. They look exactly the same to me.  I wouldn’t worry about the waterproofness of these, they sealed really nicely and have the glue rings to make a tight seal.  

HammerheadFistpunch > VincentMalamute-Kim 08/05/2020 at 00:37

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This brand, heck they could be the cheap ones

https://www.amazon.com/stores/Sopoby/%E4%B8%BB%E9%A1%B5/page/FFACC068-ECEC-4EE3-9212-A9DAE85C94B7

Rusty Vandura - www.tinyurl.com/keepoppo > VincentMalamute-Kim 08/05/2020 at 01:48

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RV certifying organizations expect you to spare every expense. You don’t need mondo pliers to crimp 12 gauge wire. I’ve got a very modest crimping plier that I bought at Home Depot a number of years ago.

It’s possible that some of the hackery that you found in that RV was already there if the original air conditioner had been installed by a dealer.

Rusty Vandura - www.tinyurl.com/keepoppo > VincentMalamute-Kim 08/05/2020 at 01:52

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https://www.homedepot.com/p/Klein-Tools-9-1-2-in-Crimping-Tool-1005SEN/100352095

This one. Been using it for years. Very important tool to me. I would definitely be crimping and not fooling with solder. Crimping and shrink wrap.

VincentMalamute-Kim > HammerheadFistpunch 08/05/2020 at 13:25

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Thanks. I assumed you got some name brand like 3M or something.

VincentMalamute-Kim > Rusty Vandura - www.tinyurl.com/keepoppo 08/05/2020 at 13:27

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Pretty sure I’m safe in blaming the RV repair place that installed this last AC. The unit that it replaced was the OEM installation by Roadtrek.

I’m going to need the mondo crimpers at some point if I get to doing my campervan and do the 2 or 1 or 0 gauge cables.

VincentMalamute-Kim > Rusty Vandura - www.tinyurl.com/keepoppo 08/05/2020 at 13:30

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I have this one that always feels cheap and I’m never super confident about the finished crimp. I think I’ll put your Klein on my to-buy list.

https://www.amazon.com/GB-Electrical-Multi-Tool-Crimper-Stripper/dp/B000GAS6I2

I suspect I’m not going to have a large enough crimp connector in my stock.  If so, I’ll solder.

Rusty Vandura - www.tinyurl.com/keepoppo > VincentMalamute-Kim 08/05/2020 at 19:08

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I like the versatility of that particular plier. I've crimped some pretty big connectors with it.